Behind the Scenes at Chubby Fish with Award-Winning Chef James London

On this episode of Speaking of College of Charleston, guest host Tom Cunneff interviews James London '07, owner and chef of Chubby Fish and the cocktail bar Seahorse in Charleston. London, a native of Charleston, discusses his journey from growing up fishing on Edisto Island to pursuing his career in fine dining after attending the College of Charleston. He talks about the impact of COVID-19 on his business and the creation of an outdoor dining space at Seahorse. London shares insights into his unique dock-to-table philosophy, the importance of relationships with local fishermen and farmers and his diverse culinary background. He also speaks about learning new things daily and teaching the next generation of chefs while reflecting on his restaurant's success, including multiple James Beard nominations and widespread acclaim. The interview concludes with stories of his formative years, influenced by his family's educational background and his fishing time, which shaped his passion for seafood cuisine.

Featured on this episode

James London, a Charleston native, came up cooking in barbecue and Southern restaurants in South Carolina. Upon enrolling at the College of Charleston Chef James decided to pursue his passion in food and began to work full time in fine dining restaurants while pursuing a double major at the College.

Once he graduated he made the leap to New York City where he enrolled at The French Culinary Institute. After graduation James went on to work with Chef Josh Dechellis before becoming the Executive Chef at Niko, a fine dining Japanese Restaurant in Soho.

After his time in New York, James ventured West to San Francisco where he led the kitchen at The Elite Café, a Creole restaurant in Pacific Heights.

James eventually made it back to Charleston where he and his wife, Yoanna, opened Chubby Fish, a dock to table seafood concept that has taken the city by storm. Chubby Fish has garnered a Best New Restaurant nod from Bon Appetit, was ranked #7 Restaurant in the US from Food and Wine Magazine, and a James Beard finalist for Best Chef Southeast 2024.

Resources from this episode:

College of Charleston Alumni magazine winter issue 2025, interview with James London

Chubby Fish Restaurant

Seahorse

James Beard Semifinalists 2025

Transcript

Chubby Fish

[00:00:00] 

On this episode of Speaking of College of Charleston, guest host Tom Cunniff, editor of the College of Charleston Magazine, talks to James London, owner and chef of Chubby Fish and the recently opened cocktail bar Seahorse. A Charleston native James London grew up fishing off his family's dock on Edisto Island.

He enrolled at the College of Charleston to pursue his passion and food and worked full-time in fine dining restaurants while earning a double major in business administration, hospitality and tourism management. London graduated and moved to New York City and San Francisco learning from some of the greats.

He eventually made it back to Charleston where he and his wife opened Chubby Fish, a [00:01:00] dock to table seafood concept that has taken the city by storm. Chubby fish has garnered a best new restaurant. Nod. From Bon Appetit was ranked number seven restaurant in the US from Food and Wine Magazine and a James Beard finalist for Best Chef Southeast.

2024. We went on the road for this episode and recorded in the private dining room at seahorse, the gorgeously decorated cocktail bar on Cuming Street, which is adjacent to chubby fish. You may hear some background noises coming from the kitchen, but unfortunately you won't be able to smell the delicious flavors being prepped in the kitchen.

You'll have to come and smell them for yourselves.

For joining us on the CFC podcast. Speaking of College of Charleston, we're sitting here in your new venue here at Chubby Fish called seahorse. And tell me a little bit about, uh, what prompted you to add this on to your restaurant? [00:02:00] Yes, so first off, thanks for having me. Um, and thanks for a beautiful article in CFC Magazine.

Um, it came out really, really well and I really appreciate, glad you liked it, you including us in that, um. So seahorse was prompted during Covid, and so Covid, as you know, chubby fish is a thousand square feet. Chubby fish is very small. And during Covid, I didn't feel comfortable having any of my people in there.

Um, you know, in a very tight space, uh, with a ton of people coming in and out and. Uh, I didn't want anything to make them feel like they didn't want to be at work. And so for me, the easy answer was just keep chubby fish closed. But then as time went on, I started thinking, man, if we had an out door space, we would be able to, you know, reopen in some [00:03:00] capacity.

And so this building next door to Chubby Fish, uh, came open during Covid. And so I. Knew that if we were able to get this rezoned to a commercial business, uh, zoning, then we might be able to use the outdoor space and have people eat outside. And so that was really the impetus to kind of go headfirst in this direction.

Um, so we opened up in January. Of this year and uh, it's been great. So, cocktail bar downstairs, two private dining rooms upstairs, and then we have a kitchen here that services both, both areas. And you can keep some of your business, 'cause I know you have a long line, you know what, 190 people a night online or how many?

Yeah, so, well we, we do between 165 to a hundred, 185 every night. And so [00:04:00] with no reservations, what that means is that we have a giant line. The stretches down the street. And so oftentimes these people will put their names down, we'll give 'em a time to come back. But then we're, you know, we're generally telling them, you know, go, go to this bar, go to this bar, go to this bar, um, and hang out.

And then you come back at your time. But you know, now they can hang out here. Now they can hang out here. Now they can spend their money with us. And um, you know, we didn't have to. Pull out all the stops and try to create a world class cocktail bar, but that's what we wanted to do. Yeah. And so that now there's, there's a really great cocktail bar downstairs at Seahorse, and then upstairs here, these are our two private dining rooms.

So anytime that you have large parties coming into town is the perfect spot to bring 'em. What sort of cocktails are you serving? Uh, so it's, it's across the board and what we. I strive to do really was [00:05:00] create this worldwide coastal theme, um, so that you wouldn't feel out of place with any of these drinks in any major port city in the world.

And, um, so we focus on, you know, rums on, uh, whiskeys, uh, that have some ties to coastal cities and. Um, you know, there's a good bit of Japanese theme in there. Um, so it really, um, it's, it's across the board. But the big thing is with the cocktails, they're so dialed in, they're so balanced, and they're really, really beautiful.

And you, you offer small bites as well? We do. Uh, so we have a daily changing menu. We generally have six menu items per day. We, we tend towards the snacky side of things. Um, so today we're doing this little, uh, pork belly porchetta toast. Um, we do a anchovy toast with [00:06:00] great canion anchovies. Um, we're doing some razor clams, some live base scallops.

Um, we're doing potato chips, done kechi pepe style with iberico ham. Um, so kind of fun things that keep you coming back, keep you drinking, and uh, and keep you entertained. Okay, well congratulations on your second James Beard nomination. Second beard nomination. Yes. Uh, but this, this one's a tougher category.

Outstanding chef, uh, of the southeast or the whole country. So last year was, uh, best Chef Southeast and we were finalists for that. We got to go up to Chicago for that, and we got to bring the entire team, which was really awesome. Um, but this year we are nominated for outstanding restaurant in the country.

And so that is a tougher category. You know, there's, there's more nominees, um, and you know, it's nationwide and a lot of these guys are big players in the industry [00:07:00] and they've been doing it for, you know, they've had the restaurants for 10, 15 years. And so scrappy little chubby fish outta Charleston, south Carolina's coming in there.

And, um. You know, it'd be like a Cinderella team in the Mar Marsh madness. Totally, totally. Um, yeah, we're, we're, uh, we're the small guy. And, uh, but the great thing about this nomination is that it recognizes the entire team and it really takes an entire team and entire army of like-minded individuals in order to pull off something like we pulled off.

And, um, so I couldn't be happier that the entire team was nominated. And, um, it really is a testament to how hard they work and, and how much they buy into what we do. What's on the menu for tonight in Chubby Fish? So menu tonight we have, um, we have some amazing black grouper that just came in and that's gonna be served with [00:08:00] a green garlic butter, some first of the season, English peas, um, trout row, and, uh, some beef.

Uh, glaze shiitake mushrooms. Um, so really excited about that one. Um, we have a pork shoulder steak, which is typically an off cut, um, but uh, probably the most flavorful cut you can get off of a pig. And so those are pigs that are coming from Kings Tree, South Carolina, and uh, they're all. Old heirloom breed pigs from, you know, the original Sea Island pigs that came from Spanish.

Um, so we're serving that tonight with a salsa verde that's done with spring onions and uh, green almonds. Um, I'm getting hungry. Yeah. Uh, we just got a tuna delivery. So we have a bunch of North Carolina tuna that came in. Um. And so we'll be doing that with Crudo. We'll be doing that on a tuna belly toast.

We'll be doing that, uh, pounded and seared and [00:09:00] done with a sauce that's made out of the tails of the tuna, um, that we cure and smoke, and then make that into a kind of an aioli situation, kind of like a tenana. Um, so yeah, you know, there's probably 38 different menu items today. Probably six to seven of those are new ones today.

Um, so every day it's, it's fun. It's interesting, uh, we don't necessarily know what we're walking into every day, but we go in there and we play jazz and we improv and we have a really good time. I know. Uh, tell me a little bit about your dock table philosophy and the relationships you have with all these fishermen and farmers.

I mean, that's the, that's a big key to your success, don't you think? It's huge. You know, in restaurants, relationships are everything. If you. Uh, if you don't have great relationships with your purveyors, you're not gonna get great, great product. Um, there's an old saying in restaurants that [00:10:00] the number of wheels on the delivery vehicle that dropped off your product at your door is inversely related to the quality of the food in the restaurant.

Uh, meaning, you know, if you're getting everything off of a Cisco truck, um, you're not gonna have amazing product and. Inherently, you're not gonna have amazing food that hits the table. Um, so for us, we go as small as possible with our purveyors. So you know, as much as possible, I don't want to go through a middleman.

I don't want to have to pick up the phone and call a seafood purveyor and say, Hey, could I get 40 pounds of red snapper and 20 pounds of flounder and 60 pounds of grouper for tomorrow? I want the fishermen to come to me with the cooler of everything they caught. And then I wanna buy the entire cooler and use that on our menu.

Kind of reverse engineer it, huh? Totally. That way, you know? Um, I don't [00:11:00] want anything that's coming outta the water that, you know, was harmed in the process of catching it to have to go back over the side because they don't think that there's a good market for it, because they don't think that it's, it's as good as the grouper or the flounder or the red snapper.

I want to be able to use all that. And the thing with seafood is it's all incredible. It's all delicious as long as you figure out how to prepare it. Is there a name for the type of cuisine you, you, um, you provide here? I have no idea what you call my cuisine. It's, it's just, it's just not seafood. It's more than just like a seafood.

Yeah. It's, it's a hodgepodge of. So many different techniques and flavors and ingredients and really it's just, it's kind of a, uh, a map of my career in a way in terms of how we're layering our flavors, how there's different, and you know, the thing is when I was [00:12:00] coming up, you know, I was, I was hired as an executive chef.

I got my first chef position when I was 26 in New York. And. It was at a fine dining Japanese spot. And before that I had worked at a fine dining, uh, Spanish spot. And, um, then prior to that I was down in Charleston and, you know, I was working at a Mediterranean restaurant. Um, I worked at some old school southern restaurants, and then before that I was working in barbecue restaurants.

And so, um. You know, from the Japanese spot in New York, uh, I did an African spot up in Montauk. I did, um, uh, a Cajun restaurant. Um, I did an Italian restaurant. So I've done all these different cuisines, and the thing for me is when I was in each of those spaces, I hated being pigeonholed into doing one specific type of cuisine because my brain would just.

It, my gears would stop turning because I could only think of [00:13:00] something in Italian, in an Italian light or in a Japanese light. And so all these ideas would come up and I'd have to like push 'em to the side. And so I didn't really experience true creativity until I opened up Chubby fish and writing that first menu the first day.

It was all of a sudden all these ideas were coming from left field, from right field. All these different cuisines were merging together. And it was kind of this real matrix moment where all of a sudden it all made sense. And back when I was a line cook, I had a chef I worked for and he gave me a piece of advice and it was, you're gonna work in, you know, 10, 15, 20 different restaurants, each of those restaurants that you work in.

You're gonna take a tool from it and you're gonna put that in your toolbox. And then when you build your restaurant one day, you're gonna open that toolbox and that's your restaurant. And, [00:14:00] you know, I heard it and I kept thinking about it while I was, you know, getting bogged down in all these different restaurants.

And then when it actually happened, when I opened those doors that first day, that was, that was my food, that was my style, that was chubby fish. And um, so it was a real. Full circle moment for me. Your culinary toolbox as it were, huh? Absolutely. Where's the name Chubby Fish come from? So, chubby Fish. Uh, basically I had written my business plan.

I needed to start going to banks and pitching my business plan so that they would gimme money. None of them ever gave me any money. Um, but I needed, uh, you know, I had the business plan. I had run all my numbers. The concept looked solid. Um, I had the space already, but I had no name. And so my wife and I sat down and we drank a bottle of wine and just threw out names.

And what were some other names you threw out? Uh. Well, I don't wanna give [00:15:00] you all the names 'cause I want I, I may wanna name another restaurant, one of these names. Okay. And I don't want somebody else to take it. Um, how about a name? How about a name? You, you rejected that, that you wouldn't Well, I, I rejected Chubby Fish so many times.

Oh really? Yeah. And, but she kept saying it and I was tired and I was ready to go to bed and I had an early meeting in the morning. And this, you're talking about Yoyo Uhhuh, your wife and partner? Yeah, I'm talking about Yoyo my wife. And, um. She kept saying, chubby fish, it's, it's cute, it's fun. Um, we don't wanna be something serious.

And I kept saying, no, no, no. And finally it was time to go to bed. And I said, sure, we can call it chubby fish. So we went and, uh, put it on the front of the business plan and that was it. It works. I like the name. And, and looking back, like I would've named it, I would've named it something else, but. I'm really happy that we landed on Chubby Fish.

Why? Why are you happy? Because the [00:16:00] number of people, I mean, every night there's somebody who says, I really love the name. How'd you come up with that? And, um, you know, if I was coming up with one of my other names, then it may not have wound up like that. Yeah, I think it's a good name. Um. Yeah. Yeah. I know you only can, you, you, you seat 38 in the main restaurant.

Mm-hmm. And you do four turns a night, is that right? Correct. Um, when, when did, how long did it take you to, that's incredible in this industry to do four turns a night. I know. Um, how, how long did it take you to get there? Were you, did, were you successful right away? You opened in 2018, is that right? Yes. We opened up in, uh, July of 2018.

Off the rip, there was this pent up demand for chubby fish. Um, and it was just the fact that we were doing a dock table seafood concept in a city where seafood is so important and [00:17:00] people traveled to Charleston strictly to come eat seafood. And what we were doing was. Not overly groundbreaking in conceptually.

Um, you know, on the West coast, this is a concept that you see in a lot of little port towns where it's basically there's a little seafood market and then they have a chalkboard menu and it's kind of their whatever came in that day and, you know, they serve it simply. And, um, I knew that we didn't have that in Charleston.

Sure, sure there are seafood restaurants, but there was nobody who was really saying, I'm going all in on local seafood and I will die on that sword, essentially. Yeah. They're, the other restaurants are kind of cooking what people want. The, the, the, you know, the, the getting the, the orders from Cisco or whatever and just cooking up what people expect now.

Yeah. And, and there's certainly great, there's, there's, there's many great chefs who came before [00:18:00] me in Charleston who, um. Who really started that, um, and started, uh, pushing that. If you want me to backtrack, I will. Oh no, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to we, I Oh no, you're good. I shouldn't have interrupted. I, but I don't mind the sign the sound of the Oh, we're, we're totally fine with it.

No, I, I'm totally sorry for No, no for derailing your, your answer. I'm a multitasker. This is what I did. Um, we were just saying with the, um, girls. After you guys are done, would you mind going downstairs to the bar so they could get some B roll of you? Yeah. Like pretending to serve a drink or something?

Absolutely. Behind the bar. He, he doesn't serve drinks? No, but, or, or mix. I mean, drink drinks. Hey, we drink a drink. Get 'em in the kitchen maybe. Or the kitchen too. Yeah, the kitchen is right here. This one is here? Yeah. And then that one's over there. Yeah. Um, so, alright, you, you tee me up. What, uh, there, I mean, you're, you're the key to your restaurant clearly is the improvisation, like you talked about the jazz like ability you have that really, in other seafood restaurants, they're kind of relying on just tried and true dishes, aren't they?

More or less? Totally. Um, for me, you know, I, I, I certainly could just do a piece of seared flounder on the plana and. Uh, serve it with lemon and a spring of parsley and call it a day. Um, but, you know, the reason that I got into the restaurant business initially was, you know, I, I came from music. Um, and so I'd love the creative side of it.

I love the artistic side of it. I love creating layers and depth. [00:19:00] And, um, not that a piece of perfectly seared flounder with lemon parsley doesn't give you that, but for me, I really think of food and cuisine as a way of expressing myself. And so, you know, I can, I can really express myself through food and, and I think it mirrors music in a big way in that.

Yeah, you know, you're creating something and you're layering something and you're creating depth and uh, creating balance. And so that's why I'm into it. You don't get into the restaurant business 'cause you wanna make money. You get into it because, um, you're really drawn to it in, you know, in an artistic way.

That's real background noise. That's, that's ambient noise right there, probably. Hey, [00:20:00] what do you think? This is a restaurant. Calm down. Um, to that note, because you said that in the magazine too, I think that you don't go into restaurants to make money and go into it, which I think is a, is a great line, but I don't know if that's, if.

If everybody expand on that. Well, people, a lot of people probably go into the restaurants and make money and Right. Well, that, that's, that's the problem. That's the problem with restaurants is that most people who do go into restaurants are thinking, we're going into this to make money. And then they get into it and they're like, oh, wow.

This was a bad idea. The margins are very smart. The margins are terrible. It's a terrible but it's, it's so gratifying. It's you like. At the end, like, I think we, you read about this in the article, the fact that you get to make people happy on like a, like a real, like deep down, deep down level, um, is something that is, I just don't know of another industry where you can.

Do that on a nightly base basis with that many people. Yeah. Can you say that again? If we pick back up by where I probably won't be able to say that again. What do you love most about, or just 'cause you, because you were saying, you just said I'll, I'll I get him to say it. Yeah. Okay. What, James, hold on.

Let's, let's pause because this person's about to run down the stairs, whoever this is, the ice just would've been hard to, yeah. To hear. Um. I also thought it was great when, when you were talking about the award being for the whole group. Mm-hmm. And I don't know if we have time to talk about that at all, but I think that's an interesting topic in the hospitality industry, how hard it is to find and maintain good workers.

And, um, I didn't know if you wanted to say anything more about your, your, your team. Um, totally. If only, if that makes sense. Yeah. If we have Oh yeah, yeah. We can talk about like, who, who I, who. What I'm looking for when I'm hiring people. Yeah, because that's a good, it's gotta be hard here, right? I mean, like affordability, people can't, you know, finding people who can, um, work for you, I think is, it's gotta be a challenge.

Yeah. Although he, he pays him well. Yeah. And uh, and I do, but they earn it. Yeah. Um, I know they love working for you, so you probably have very little turnover right. In your staff. I do, I I have very, very little turnover, which seem to be rare in this industry. It is. Well, tell me what you love most about your job or your, I shouldn't call it a job.

Your, your, your what you do, your, your, your art. Uh, so what I love most about it is, well, hmm. What I love most about my job is. I love being able to teach the next generation, the generation that's coming up after me and the generation that's coming up after them. And you know, I think that's, um, both my parents were teachers and as I've gotten older, I've realized how gratifying that is for me to be able to.

Share what I know and share the lessons that I've learned the hard [00:21:00] way. Um, and hopefully give them that shortcut so they don't have to necessarily take as long to figure it out as I did. And, uh, anything in particular that you want them to learn? Um, I mean, I want to, to learn it all. The, the great thing about the industry that I'm in is that every day I'm learning something new.

Every single day. There's not a single day that I go home and I'm like, yeah, I didn't learn anything today. Um, and you know, I have a, an extremely inquisitive mind where it's constantly running and I constantly have to be, uh, researching something, you know, and if it's not food, like I'm sitting there on the, on the computer sitting there researching, you know.

Why, uh, you know, looking at these chairs, like why tell me about tartans in Scotland. You know, I wanna know everything. And, [00:22:00] um, that's really great about food is there's so much to learn. There's so, there's so much you can learn about a single ingredient, about fennel, um, and, uh, you know, where it came from, et cetera.

And so whatever I can do to. Pass on whatever knowledge I have to my cooks. Um, it makes me really happy to be able to share that with them. And now your dad taught economics at the College of Charleston, is that right? Correct. In the 1980s? Mm-hmm. And what did your mom, what kind of teacher was she? So my mom was, um, my mom was actually up at the Strom Thurman Institute in, uh, Clemson.

And so she was the director of research for the Strom Thurman Institute. Um, and then she went on to become city planner for Greenville, um, as well as the city of Clemson. And your dad towed Clemson after he left here? Yes. And my dad was [00:23:00] in planning and urban development. Um, but while you were growing up in Charleston, used to go to your grandparents' house in and do a lot of fishing off their dock, is that right?

Yeah. So aunt and uncles, uh, aunt and uncle lived on Esau Island. Um, my grandparents were in Northbridge Terrace, um, where my mother grew up. And, um, so from a young age, you know, I would go, uh, I just had this insatiable appetite for fishing and I really just, they would let me out in the morning and I would sit out there and I would fish until they told me I had to come in at nighttime.

And I wouldn't leave. I'd sit there all day long and, um, I was just fascinated with it. And, you know, so I didn't always know that I wanted to open up a seafood restaurant. Um, but I knew that I really loved fishing and, you know, those were very formative [00:24:00] years for me. And, you know, we talked about in the article how that was my first, um, real, you know, I would, I would.

Bring my mother buckets of fish or buckets of crab, or buckets of shrimp that I'd caught. And she would take 'em and she would clean them up. She would prepare 'em and she would put 'em on the table for the entire family. And so the entire family would sit down and they'd have these big smiles and everybody would be super happy and laughing.

And we were sitting around eating seafood that I had caught. And for me that was a very impressionable moment, you know? 'cause I was, you know, 5, 6, 7 years old at this time. And. To just see the power that food had and looking back that seafood had, um, and how powerful of a tool it was and how I wanted to be able to share that with people eventually on, on a larger scale.

Explain why this area is so great for fish, [00:25:00] because of the confluence of the two fisheries. Right. So where Charleston's located we're right, smacking the. We're, we're right in the middle of the Mid-Atlantic fishery and then the South Atlantic fishery. And there's not many places in the country that get that overlap.

Um, Charleston's one of the few because, you know, in, on the Pacific side of things, you know, it's pretty much just the Pacific. It's, you know, it's California. Those same are gonna run all the way up, right? Um, and, uh, then you're gonna have Dungeons Crab basically running the entire length. Um, so.

Charleston's very unique in that aspect. But you know, the other reason why Charleston's such a great fishery is we have the marsh, and the marsh is full of nutrients and those nutrients bring, uh, young fish and juvenile fish, and those are the fish that grow up to be big fish. And so we just have. This incredible amount of diversity of species here to the point where even to this day, we still get species in that we've never worked with.

And that's pretty remarkable. You know? And on the Pacific side of things, I can name 10 fish that they're able to get on a consistent basis where we are, [00:26:00] you know, I'm looking at 40, 50 species. Wow. Which is wild. Now, what made you, you were living in Clemson when you, when. You went to high school in, in Clemson, is that right?

Mm-hmm. Um, and what made you come to the college? So, um, you know, I knew a lot of my friends stuck around Clemson, went to Clemson. I felt by the time I had graduated high school, that I had already been to Clemson. You know, I had already done all the parties, I'd done all the sports. I grew up going to every football game, every soccer game, every baseball game, every basketball game.

Um, and you know, I. I adored it. It was a great place to grow up, but for me, I was really leaning into the music side of things at that point, leaning into drumming. And, um, honestly, there was a, a guy down here named Quentin Baxter, who was teaching at the college at the time, and I really loved his style. I was, I was [00:27:00] doing jazz drumming and Quinn had this extremely unique style, um, when he was behind a kit.

And, um, so I knew that I wanted to come down, I wanted to learn from him. Um, and so I came down nights where I wasn't playing music gigs around town. I would go and work in restaurants and so I'd work in the kitchen and at first it was, you know, it was part-time. It was a way to pay my bills and, you know, get me through school.

Um. But then I started working for a chef who kept asking me to come back, and eventually he talked me into working for him full-time. So I was doing full-time school, um, full-time in a restaurant, and then I was playing gigs three or four nights a week. And, um, so for me, I loved it. Um, I had tons of energy and it was great.

I got to do everything I loved and. [00:28:00] But what that meant was I would leave the restaurant at nine o'clock at night and I would go across town to my gig and I'd jump up on stage and I'd start playing. And it was, it was amazing. But my, the other line cooks in the kitchen were having to clean my station every night, put away all my things.

The, my band mates were having to set up my drum kit, do sound check, haul my drums. And, um, so it wasn't sustainable for anyone except for me. Um, and you were working at the Carolina Yacht Club at the time? That was Carolina Yacht Club Days. Uh, and that was Carolina Yacht Club into a restaurant called AVI and Cord.

Davi, uh, was my executive sous chef from Carolina Yacht Club who had opened that up with a chef who had come from San Francisco. And, um. But what, what the head was the head chef at the yacht club? No, that this was yacht club. You're right. This was yacht club who said, 'cause I sat down with the head chef at the yacht club and he's the one who said, tomorrow when you come into work, you're gonna tell me whether you're gonna be a drummer or a chef.

And, um, so stayed up all night long thinking about what I was planning for the rest of my life. And I came back the next day and I said, I'm gonna be a, I'm gonna be a chef. And I never looked [00:29:00] back and I. Put my horse blinders on at that point and haven't touched the drum since. Right. You know, I, I really haven't, and you know, I was actually, Quentin Baxter was in Chubby Fish last night, so it's perfect timing.

Oh. Get out. But I, we were talking about it and we were talking about how similar music and cooking are and how, you know, how he dabbles at the house. Um, but that. They're both careers where they're really all or nothing careers. If you're gonna do it to your best, to the best of your ability, you have to be all in.

And if you're not, that, that career will eat you up. And um, it's the same way with music as it is with cooking. I.

Well, let, let me let, let ask you a little bit about what, at the college, what you learned there. I know you had a very influential professor, professor named Bob Fresh and what he taught you and how that contributed to your success. Can you talk a little bit about that? Sure. Um, [00:30:00] so when I was, when I was, uh, switching majors, um, and going over to business and hospitality and tourism.

Um, there was a professor there, Dr. F Fresh, and Dr. F Fresh had been in the restaurant game. He had opened up, um, numerous restaurants, um, uh, I think mainly located around upstate New York. And for me, you know, I was into the restaurants because I loved the cooking side of things. I love the art, uh, associated with all that, but.

What he was really preaching to me was, you can do something beyond that. You can, you can own a restaurant and it can be yours and it can be your voice. And for me that was hugely influential because at that time, you know, I was thinking I'm gonna be a chef and that's the path and I'll go to culinary school, but I mean, [00:31:00] I'm kind of wasting my time at the college a little bit.

Um, and you know, for my parents it was very important that I finish up, but all of a sudden I started sitting in Dr. RA's class and Dr. Frasch was talking about, um, you know, how to do food costing and labor costing and franchising a restaurant. And, um, all of a sudden there was this whole new can of worms that opened and it was like, you know what?

I wanna open a, I want to own a restaurant. And, um, so that really set me on that path where it was like, you know, there's something beyond cooking, like cooking's important, I have to figure out cooking. Um, and, but I also need to do all this other stuff along the way. I need, I need to figure out the business side of things.

If I'm gonna open up a restaurant, I need to figure out the marketing side of things, et cetera. And so he was, he was hugely influential for me. And, um, as I said before, you know, if, if. He had not stepped into my life. If I had not stepped into his classroom, there would be no chubby fish. [00:32:00] Uh, lastly, are you, is this what you envisioned, or, uh, how, how did that idea in his class, when you first thought about the fact that you could own your own restaurant, is this what you envisioned and, and are you surprised by your success?

Um, you know, I'm. Every now and again, I'm, I am surprised. Um, but honestly, like I don't ever take time to sit back and kick my feet up and relax and think about what we've created, you know? Yes, I know. It's magical. Yes, I know it's powerful. Yes, it's exactly what I wanted, but there's always something to do.

And so I never get comfortable. I never, um, uh, sit back and, and I'm never completely happy with where we're at. Sure, I'm happy. Yes, I love what I do, but there's always something [00:33:00] to do and there's always, um, something that we can improve. And so I'm always constantly searching for what's next, what we can improve, and how to make all of our people happier.

Something new to learn every day. Right? Absolutely. Alright, James, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Speaking of College of Charleston with today's guest host Tom Coniff and Chef James London. If you liked this episode, please help us reach more listeners by sharing it with a friend or leaving a review for show notes and more episodes. Visit the College of Charleston's official news site, the College today.

At today.charleston.edu. You can find episodes on all major podcast platforms. This episode was produced by Amy Stockwell with recording and sound engineering by Jessie Ks from the Division of Information Technology.[00:34:00]